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    I feel my fate in what I cannot fear.
    I learn by going where I have to go.
    --Theodore Roethke
  • Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you.
    -- Jean-Paul Sartre
  • I'm Nobody! Who are you?
    Are you—Nobody—Too?
    Then there's a pair of us!
    Don't tell! they'd advertise—you know!

    How dreary—to be—Somebody!
    How public—like a Frog—
    To tell one's name—the livelong June—
    To an admiring Bog!
    --Emily Dickinson

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    « This kind of thing makes me embarrassed to be a non-trad student | Main | How to make a job sound appealing »

    Thursday, August 25, 2011

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    NK, there's actually an article on the Sept. issue of Elle about a young women's republican movement and some of their experiences in feeling like a minority. I know it's not a "serious" reference, per se, but it's does seem to be an issue--these women feel marginalized. Nothing else really to say, brain fried from beginning of semester meetings.

    I believe that their bigot response was engendered by Yolen's rightful characterization of the politico as unchristian. This allows them to get all hand-wavey about their horrible oppression by the godless (or Jewish) left. Gah!

    The way I see it is that Yolen was calling attention to the ramifications of policies that the Tea Party espouses and not attacking their right to exist on this planet or in this country. That's an overstated analogy, but that's kinda how I see bigotry: as a hatred/prejudice of someone's inherent characteristics, not their intellectual or ideological positions. But it's such a loaded term that, excuse my bias (although having grown up Southern Baptist I think I'm entitled to it), a certain segment of white evangelical Christians use b/c they're so desperate to prove that they're in fact embattled. That's a central part of the theology. In a similar fashion, white conservatives, especially of the Tea Party variety, insist that they're disadvantaged by affirmative action policies, which cost them jobs in favor of unqualified minority candidates. In this scenario, where one is desperately grasping for anything that suggests they're oppressed, hurling accusations of bigotry at critics is a great way to rally the troops.

    Do you think that feminists who oppose bigamy legalization are bigots?

    Um, there's a movement to legalize bigamy??

    (I would have to know more to answer that question.)

    thefrogprincess - yes, I completely agree about the embattlement. And also about the hatred of inherent characteristics as what makes bigotry different from disagreement.

    Janice - oh teh godless liberals!!

    (I would have to know more to answer that question.)

    What more would you have to know, and in what ways would it impact your determination?

    I would need to know the arguments put forward against legalizing bigamy, to determine whether they were rooted in hatred for a group of people based on immutable characteristics, or a reasoned disagreement about the issue.

    But to cut to the chase, I suspect no, I would not call them bigots, nor am I interested in debating the subject of legalizing bigamy (especially if it involves discussion of what straw-feminists think).

    It seems to me that Yolen was calling someone on hypocrisy, and to call someone a hypocrite is not bigotry. Now, you may argue that reading in libraries that you want to defund isn't hypocritical, but it's certainly not bigotry.

    It's understandable that you're not interested in debating a counter-example to your claim.

    Try this: "People I like are on the side of Truth, and therefore cannot be bigots. People who I don't like are opposed to Truth, and are therefore necessarily bigots."

    And don't forget to use lots of "teh"s and "11eleventy-ones!!11" to make it all the more fresh and compelling.

    NK--I agree with you on your definition of bigotry; however, I (as someone who definitely does not identify as conservative, though I'm definitely white and may or may not be Christian) *do* think that some liberals (and I'm a liberal) *do* stereotype white, conservative Christians in what is arguably a bigoted way. I know a few such liberals. I'm related to them, in fact.

    Obviously, not all white, conservative Christians are the same, but I've certainly heard some family members make statements about them--as a group--that are highly objectionable. Nor do conservatives have a monopoly on bigotry.

    I know that you're not making a point about white, conservative Christians here, but I feel like the example above muddied the waters a bit. In fact, the first M-W reader's entry seems like a legitimate reason to look up the word.

    Perhaps this jumped out at me because I now live in an area where the vast majority of my fellows are white, conservative Christians--and by and large perfectly lovely, extraordinarily generous people, however we may disagree on political issues. I'll be honest--living here has challenged some rather nasty biases that I wasn't really aware of having.

    And, while it's true that some politically-oriented Christians do try to claim embattled status, which is patently bogus, it is also quite clearly true that many (very likely most) white Christians don't do this.

    (Sorry if this sounds preachy; I don't mean it to be. And I absolutely agree that Yolen's comment isn't "bigoted," and I don't think that political parties should get special minority status. However, identity-group is a pretty ambiguous category, and "white, conservative Christians" does include both race and religion--even if it is a majority group.)

    Blah blah blah. It's late and I'm babbling, evidently.

    heu mihi - no, thanks, I really appreciate that comment. About the first comment at the M-W site, I didn't mean to suggest that it was illegitimate for the person to want to look up the word - I think I left out some of the links from the one (comment) to the other (Yolen thing) that took place in my head. I really didn't mean to suggest that all white, conservative Christians see themselves as embattled, or even that those that do have a monopoly on that attitude, so I apologize for giving that impression. (I can see how it would look like I equated Tea Partiers with white, conservative Christians, which I didn't mean to do - those Tea Partiers who are white and Christian are just a very small subset of white conservative Christians, and I was really talking about the TPers.)

    I totally agree that there are liberals who stereotype white conservative Christians (I think I had a similar experience to yours, in adjusting my thinking about that group, while living in a very small rural town). I used to get extremely frustrated with some liberal colleagues who seemed to assume that if people were just educated sufficiently, they would come to the correct (liberal) understanding of matters - rather than accepting that there are perfectly well-educated people who just see the world completely differently.

    And no, I don't think conservatives have a monopoly on bigotry at all.

    It is complicated, the way the political and racial and religious combine. I know it's hard to separate the political out from the other two, but that's really the element that I was thinking of - and specifically, the kind of politically embattled portrayal of majority groups as victims besieged on all sides - when they are still the majority, and last I knew, enjoyed a lot of privileges based on that status. I didn't mean to lump all conservative Christians into that group (goodness knows there are a lot of conservative Christians who totally disagree with the Tea Party, and often for some of the same reasons that I do) (which sounds a little too much like "some of my best friends are ----", sorry!).

    I have no idea if that clarified things or not! But thanks for the comment.

    (I like Susan's explication - Yolen was accusing the TPer of hypocrisy, and while you can certainly disagree that the act was hypocritical, I don't think calling someone a hypocrite is really what I would identify as bigotry.)

    ktl - I just don't want to get into a debate over the merits of bigamy because that's not what this post is about. FWIW, I personally am pro-poly relationships between consenting adults and have no investment in anti-bigamy/polygamy laws, so it's not that people I agree with can't be bigots. Some people who oppose legalization probably do so for bigoted reasons, and some probably don't. Again, I would have to know what arguments they give in support of their position. ("Feminism" is too broad to count as a reason.)

    What do we expect from people who insist on misusing other commonly understood terms in English, like "socialist," "exceptionalism," etc. This is the linguistic equivalent of climate denialism, creationism, etc. They believe they can selectively redefine the language they use and that the history & consensus of most English-langauge users is meaningless.

    But what do I know? I'm "bigoted" against morons.

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