Social angst in an intellectual setting

I find it incredibly difficult to talk to my professors outside of class, and for some reason it really bugs me that I can't figure out why.

Partly it's just me, I suspect, since I never went to see my profs in their office hours in college or even in grad school if I could help it. (Because I didn't usually have questions--even when I should have had questions--and why the hell would they want to talk to me?)

I think some of it is a generic non-trad thing: I have become way more sympathetic to the non-trad desire that your previous life and career actually mean something, that you get some kind of credit for having done other stuff before going back to school. I keep wanting to talk about the stuff I know things about, rather than what I'm actually in law school to learn. Because, you know, I know stuff! Some stuff, at least! Even if it has nothing to do with the matter at hand! The stuff I know, let me show you it! I think I usually avoid doing this (or doing it too egregiously), but I spend the conversation wanting to do it and reminding myself not to, which makes me uncomfortable.

Which isn't meant to say that non-trads (or anyone) should avoid talking about their previous life/experience. Just, you know, as it's relevant. Not just for the sake of showing that even if you're the biggest dunce in the world at Civ Pro, you've actually accomplished stuff in the past.

And some of it is that it's weird talking to profs from the perspective of having been a prof. Today I met with my seminar-of-the-crap-paper-draft prof, who at one point was explaining to me how profs, when they write papers, go to conferences to present them so they can get feedback and revise them before they send them out for publication. And I really wanted to say, Dude, I am QUITE clear on how that all works, thanks. But I didn't, of course, because he meant well and doesn't know that I know all that already, and why should he? I haven't said anything about my background, because how is it relevant to anything except making me feel better about myself because I have a spiffy, shiny degree that most students don't? Even though I sit there dying to tell my profs that yes, I have a Ph.D., because really, I would like them to think that I, too, am spiffy and shiny. (Ideally, they'd consider me spiffy and shiny because of my brilliance in law school, but hey, I'd take anything.)

(I wonder if this is what a retired doctor would feel like going to see another doctor, who doesn't know their patient used to be a doctor?)

Comments

[Rudbeckia Hirta]

Although my situation is somewhat different, I am just the opposite.

When I take classes, I am in office hours ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME asking infinity many questions. And I don't like to admit that I'm already over-educated.

I suspect that one difference is grades. I have about zero interest in my grades -- the only reason I'm taking classes is to learn something. So I have pretty strong intrinsic motivation to go ask questions.

[dr four eyes]

That would have *killed* me to not disclose the degree/previous career in that situation with your prof. I admire your restraint.

[Nitish]

Two thoughts:

1. Almost all the doctors (retired or not) I know (this is a large set - 26 in my not-so-extended family alone, plus their friends, my friends,...) would tell their doctors that they were doctors. It guarantees that they get much more information about their conditions and treatment than patients without medical training.

2. Also, I think it would have been relevant if you had mentioned your academic career to the seminar prof today. At the very least, the prof should be glad not to waste his time telling you things you already know.

[Belle]

So with you on this NK. I was in the business world for X years before going back to school, and I've cringed through meeting after meeting where somebody tries to explain what the 'real' world is like to academics. I want to rap on the table, explain that yes, I too juggled budgets etc, and that just because I now have a PhD that that doesn't mean I'm totally clueless.

[New Kid on the Hallway]

@Rudbeckia - I think it's great to ask lots of questions; I'm just the kind of person who doesn't realize what I don't get until it's too late! (But law is also very different from statistics and comp sci. You could say it's not rocket science!) I wish I didn't worry about grades, but alas, I definitely do.

@dr four eyes - hee! I don't know why I get so worked up about it - there's no reason NOT to tell them - but I feel like a heel if I bring it up without being asked. (Hell, when I was in therapy I hated telling my therapist things about myself without being asked directly, even though, hello, that's what I was paying the woman for, to tell her stuff about myself! So I could just be totally whacked here.)

@Nitish - good to know, thanks! I should add that the comment about profs going to conferences etc. was actually a very brief one-off thing, so it didn't really waste anyone's time, and I sort of thought that if I told him then, it might come out sounding snotty, which was why I didn't. But I'll keep that in mind.

@Belle - see, at least your previous experience is relevant! I just want to think that mine is. ;-) But it is so very odd to be talked to like a blank slate when you're not (I should add that my profs aren't remotely condescending or assuming I'm clueless as your meeting folk sound like they are!).

[Historiann]

Yeah--I also don't know why you don't just tell them, especially in the confidence of an office visit. It's something that will make you stand out in their eyes--and that's not a bad thing, is it? (And probably a good thing, as Nitish says, in that it will save them time explaining the world of academia to you.)

[karen]

I don't know if you'll see this as helpful or incredibly cruel, but I can guarantee you that most law professors don't consider the PhD of someone going back to law school in their 40s as "spiffy and shiny". Bringing it up would mostly make them feel uncomfortable, as most academics don't like to be reminded of the reality of failed academics. (One could definitely argue that they *should* be made to face that reality more often, but your stated goal was not speaking-truth-to-the-mildly-powerful.)

[New Kid on the Hallway]

Karen, thanks for the comment - I think that is part of my concern, that while I want to think the Ph.D. makes me spiffy and shiny, really, it doesn't, it just makes me weird, and hence discomforting. (Although obviously I don't present myself as a failed academic, and I think that there are a lot of people who leave academia of their own free choice and not just because they couldn't get a job or whatever.) I have been asked why I would leave academia before (although I would submit those who asked me that had a fairly starry-eyed view of academia!).

Also, in response to Historiann's comment: honestly, there is little enough overlap between humanities academia and being a law student that bringing up my Ph.D. really doesn't always seem that relevant. It's really not like getting another Ph.D. - it's more like going back to get another undergrad degree. It's an intensely professional degree/program, and my Ph.D. was... not. So I do hesitate to bring it up because it's about me telling them because I want them to know, and not because (I think) it serves much of a useful purpose at the moment. I still need to be told everything the next law student needs to be told, and this off-the-cuff remark about conferences has really been the only time I've had the "I know how that works already" reaction. (Except for a few passing references to tenure, but those have been peripheral comments have had nothing to do with class or anything - I just understand their significance differently from my classmates, but it's not relevant to my education.)

I'm not saying I would hide the Ph.D. or not tell anyone about it, but I'm not convinced it has much meaning in this setting.

[Rev Dr Mom]

As a non-trad myself who went to seminary with a Ph.D. after leaving academia, I'm going to take a contrarian position. I don't think a Ph.D. is (or makes you) spiffy and shiny, nor does it make you weird, but it IS part of who you are and what you bring to your studies. So in the situation you describe, it would (seem to me to) be perfectly natural to say to the prof, "Yes, I know how that works...etc.) And if the question of why you left academia arises, you just say that your interests changed (which of course they did since you are now in law school).

[New Kid on the Hallway]

Oh, I know I'm making a much bigger deal of out this than it deserves. The Ph.D. *is* part of me, but I'm just not always convinced it's relevant to what I'm doing now.